UNVA Investigated for Alleged Visa Fraud

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement has announced that the University of Northern Virginia has been served a Notice of Intent to Withdraw (NOIW) the school’s SEVP-certification and SEVIS access.

It’s the second time this year an American university has been raided and investigated for alleged visa fraud – you might remember we talked about Tri-Valley University back in the winter.  And for the second time, it’s been largely Indian students who have been affected.  This time though, according to the Hindustan Times, authorities say the focus of their investigation will be the school rather than the students.

Interestingly, UNVA was actually cited by The Chronicle of Higher Education back in March when they investigated the Tri-Valley University case.

The Times of India took the occasion to remind all students that the following constitute violations of your visa status:

– Lack of physical attendance at classes (taking only online courses is not acceptable)

– Failure to maintain a full course load

– Unauthorised employment

And a school that allows or encourages you to do any of those things is doing something wrong (here’s the full guidance from the ICE).

CORRECTION: An earlier version of this article stated UNVA has been shut down. In fact, it has been barred from accepting any new foreign students. Thank you to the commenters who quickly pointed out our error.


  1. UNVA student DID NOT DO anything wrong.Where did you find that they are not attending the class regularly or not follow the visa rules to maintain their status. Based on some newspaper, they only want their TRP. Go and try to find out the facts and feel the situation.I am not student of UNVA but still want to support them so end of the day, there will be no another univ. suffer from USCIS created and permissible univ.

  2. First of all, Unva is NOT shut down yet. So please change the “Header subject”. That is totally inappropriate. Unva is still working for business and students are attending the classes regularly.ICE or DHS didn’t find any charges yet. need to read collect the news from better sources.

  3. Hi, This is the wrong news because University of Northern Virginia is not closed but it is in under investigation. I am a student and I regularly attend my class physically, I do not do any job and I am studying for full time and university also required our attendance regularly so we follow the rules for student visa. and University is not closed yet and we are attending classes.

  4. Of course, the UNVA “students” posted about that oh-so-quickly because they got asked by the UNVA management…
    In the “Chronicle” article from March, even UNVA’s president admitted that people attend the “university” while living as far as New York and Ohio. A regular commute from NY or Ohio to attend classes is rather unlikely…
    UNVA has been well-known to be a similarly brazen diploma mill, violating the immigration laws, as Tri-Valley.
    And of course, ICE had UNVA on their radar for quite some time. During the TVU raid, some students reported that ICE agents told them that UNVA, Herguan, ITU, would be next…

    1. @joeF – Oh really…I don’t think so..
      you are talking about UNVA management..what rubbish..I saw you are keep doing same thing on many forum and i think you are being paid by murthy law firm and management to do so..don’t worry, students will never come to murthy firm as you are advertising here.

      You hv not a single word knowledge about UNVA students that’s y u r comparing UNVA with TVU.First go there and check it out..they raided but didn’t find any charges..

      I saw many of you posted wastage stuff here and there and we will see after verdict. I hope you’ll post yr comment after that.. “probably not”..

      1. Ahh, another astro-turfer.
        Accusing me of being paid is all you can come up with???
        How pathetic. I suggest reading some of my posts. Or ask that particular law firm if I get paid by them…
        UNVA is a known diploma mill, and they will get closed soon.
        I suggest that instead of posting BS, you get out of there before you get deported…
        But I forgot, UNVA “students” are not the sharpest knifes in the drawer. Otherwise, they would not have signed up with such an obvious fraud to begin with.

        1. No one will hv time to post some non sense stuff to every forum.but u hv and it proves that you are being paid to spread this rumors..

          Let me tell you, do wht ever u want but no one is here to listen u and who’s listing to u,probably illiterate people like u.
          Anyway, i can’t stop you bcoz you have to do this bcoz that’s why u are being paid..

          1. LOL. You only show that you have no clue about time management.
            Just as you obviously have no clue about diploma mills.
            And I suggest to write full English sentences. You don’t get paid by the letter, and don’t have to use SMS style.
            If you had any clue, you would go to a real, accredited university, and wouldn’t pay tens of thousands for a worthless piece of paper from a non-accredited diploma mill.

      2. And of course, I am also getting paid by all the other forums I post in, eh?
        And by all the forums I don’t post in, but where people have posted about CPT from day 1 from UNVA for over a year…
        And I planted the article in the “Chronicle of Higher Education” in March, which confirmed that UNVA is a fraud, a diploma mill…
        The bottom line is that the evidence that UNVA is a fraud is overwhelming. Your pathetic astro-turfing doesn’t change that. It only shows that you have a problem accepting reality.
        You wasted tens of thousands of dollarrs on this fraud. If you had listened to people like me, you would have saved a lot of money and problems. Too late now…

        1. wow…you started advertising murthy law firm..go and find other job..People are very smart than you and they know wht they are doing..who r u to tell them wht is right or wrong? u doesn’t look like smart person to me neither graduated.. Typing same word, u r proving how much u have…look at yrself and ask the same question to you..are you college material???.

          1. Huh? You are the one who is trying to advertise the UNVA diploma mill.
            You obviously will only learn when you get deported.

  5. UNVA is not shutdown, And I hope will not in future too. Because I am student at UNVA, reguralry attending the classes without fail. And UNVA maintaining all SEVP guidelines. we have physical class and excellent faculty.
    Dont believe on false rumors. If any student miss 2 classes UNVA sending notice to the student that ” if you miss one more class your SEVIS will terminate”. And regarding CPT: UNVA not issuing the CPT’s casual, after investigating many things they are issuing CPT.

    People other than UNVA, they dont know about UNVA, they are just thinking its like TriValley. We are attending the classes regularly and maintaining our status. People who are not attending classes doing illegal things, then ICE should depart them identifying the false students. If one student did mistake and many innocent UNVA students are punished, is this American Law.

    1. UNVA *is* like TVU. And your astroturfing doesn’t change that.
      The “Chronicle of Higher Education” showed very nicely that UNVA is a fraud.
      On UNVA’s Facebook page, people praised UNVA’s “virtual classes”, i.e., online classes, as recently as May.
      The TVU owner claimed the same “we follow the SEVP rules” stuff. It didn’t help her, and it won’t help UNVA.

      1. JoeF.

        Don’t you have somethings to do? Instead, try to finish your associates degree first and then post your nosense postings. UNVA has no accreditation this is true, but they are working on getting it. Can’t you understand that all universities and schools in US someway or not went thru the same process. I’m not a big fan of for-profit schools, and I think that they still have prove their degrees can compete with traditional schools. Even Georgetown University offering online classes so that can survive, otherwise if you have no students you have no business.

        1. Unlike you, I have real degrees.
          What UINVA may have at some point in the future is irrelevant.
          Fact is that they are not accredited. Fact is that a “degree” from UNVA is worthless toilet paper. You can’t use it for an H1, you can’t use it for a Greencard, you can’t use it for a job.
          And as far as online classes is concerned, students on F1 can NOT do online-only classes. The law prohibits that. Period.
          I suggest learning about these things before making a fool of yourself.

        2. It is of course interesting to see that you basically admit that UNVA “students” do online classes. That’s one more nail in the coffin of UNVA.
          UNVA’s student body is pretty much all foreign students, and the immigration law prohibits online-only classes for students on F1. 8 CFR 214.2(f). Look it up…
          This was one of the rules Tri-Valley also violated. In fact, all these non-accredited diploma mills that are essentially selling CPT violate these rules.

          1. Ohh..JoeF..you are still here and doing same thing which is nothing..anyways..you should read it carefully before write anything..its not your private property to write anything about any Univ..Do you even mind, what u r writing here? Mr.James told about Georgetown University offering online class(read carefully.. every time ready to write) (James,probably not aware of F-1 rules) and you assume in your dream world that UNVA do the same thing and all other non-accredited univ.You better go and check sevis website rather than wasting your so called XYZ univ degree and time(Sorry i think you are totally free). there is only 5 lines are written about CPT.There is no rules that school cant offer CPT from 1 day. It’s upto school DSO and thats why sevis didn’t charge anything to UNVA..I agree that school should not give CPT from 1 day but there is no law or rules from sevis. Sevis has to change their rules and now i think they are going to do that but no one can ask Univ for sevis own mistake and loop holes in their rules and regulations..In your idea and in yr dream, it’s violation but IT IS NOT..GO and CHECK..Before ask or point yr finger, learn abt them first. That’s the policy and rules or else leave..I would like to show yr research on CPT rules here and then bark here..Without knowledge, you do not deserve to speak..

          2. @ussystem
            Sigh. Are you really so d*mb?
            Georgetown University or not is completely irrelevant. Georgetown does NOT offer online-only classes to foreign students. Americans can take online classes all they want, foreign students on F1 can not. Get that in your head.

            And the whole CPT from day 1 stuff is also irrelevant. That’s dead, anyway, due to the actions of TVU and UNVA. CPT has to be part of an established curriculum. It is highly unlikely that a university can justify CPT from day one, since the students have to learn things first before they can apply the learned stuff in a real-world setting. It seems besides intellect, you are also missing common sense.
            And finally, all this has been discussed to death on a lot of forums in the last year, e.g., a 21-page or so thread on trackitt, about TVU. You are just repeating all the BS that Ms. Su from TVU posted then. It doesn’t become right by people repeating it.
            You repeating all that only shows that UNVA is in the same league as TVU, a fraudulent diploma mill.

          3. I don’t care what you think about UNVA. But it seems to me that you have problems with UNVA, I assume you must be of the terminated professors.
            UNVA has many foreign students but those students doing what they are required to do by DHS. Maintaining their status by attebding their courses. I went there last Sunday to check if there are students on Sundays and I saw classes full of students listening and making notes and professors presenting the chapters. I think this school will survive and be cleared of wrongdoing just because it is not fake like you saying.
            And BTW Georgetown University offers online classes for its F1 students, but you can only take only one class per semester. And UNVA says the same thing. JOEF be cool for now.

        3. So, UNVA apparently is searching for a “Chief Compliance Officer”: http://www.higheredjobs.com/executive/details.cfm?JobCode=175546786&Title=Chief%20Compliance%20Officer%20%28CCO%29
          Unlike you guys, UNVA’s management apparently knows that they have been lacking in compliance with the law…
          This makes you guys look even more clueless, makes you look even more as the bad astro-turfers that you are. Thanks for playing. Better luck next time…
          Of course, I rather doubt that they find a competent lawyer for that rather low salary. My lawyer friends wouldn’t work for that salary. They may get somebody right out of law school, but that won’t help them much. I also wonder if they would accept somebody with a fake law degree, e.g., from TVU… After all, they “know” the value of these degrees from TVU, since they accepted several TVU students after TVU was shut down…

        4. @James:
          If you don’t care what I think of UNVA, fine. Then you don’t have to comment on my posts…
          As for me, I live in California, have never been to Virginia, and certainly have never been affiliated in any way or form with any non-accredited diploma mill.
          I got my degrees from public universities in Europe and in California.
          As I have explained in lots of posts elsewhere, I am a software engineer.

          UNVA has not only “many” foreign students, UNVA has pretty much only foreign students. And Mr. Ho, the owner, has admitted that some of these students live way outside normal commuting range.
          I do know that UNVA has tried this “creative” interpretation of the laws by offering weekend classes so that the people who work in NY and Ohio using CPT can “claim” to follow the law by attending some weekend classes once a month. They started this around the time of the TVU raid, in a desperate attempt to keep their “business model” alive. It is very unlikely to work.

  6. In fact, one of the UNVA “students” who vandalized the Wikipedia page about UNVA on Friday was doing so from an IP address assigned to a pharmaceutical company in New Jersey…
    So much for UNVA “students” attending classes…

    1. That’s all you got it…nothing much..please show the proof what u r writing here. if you hv nothing to show then plz don’t display fake info in this post..i hope you got my point and yes students do attend the class on regular basis.

      1. LOL. You are so clueless that you can’t even find that out yourself…
        I knew that UNVA “students” are not the sharpest knifes, but you obviously wanted to show it to the world…

        1. We are very sharp and u can’t imagine it. Looks like you r being frustrated. We don’t need to be that much sharp here in front of foolish people who don’t even know wht they r writing here without any base..

          Let me tell you one good news, Unva got appointed new DSO by sevis(I hope you know who is DSO..plz google it or ask murthy firm).They got all access to sevis back..We prove it our sharpness..go and find another ans to reply on this post or ask murthy law wht to ans here…
          We know where we hv to show our sharpness. Lets wait for some more time and i’ll give you more good news and screw all yr happiness..

          Stop spreading rumors about UNVA and students..Find the truth and than come up..

          1. LOL. If you were “very sharp” you would not have signed up with a non-accredited diploma mill.
            Your actions speak louder than your words. You have signed up with a fraud. That makes you d*mb as a brick.

          2. Oh, and if you want to discuss these things, I suggest you do it on the forums I frequent, and not here. You obviously read my posts…
            Or are you so intellectually challenged that you can’t post there?

  7. Interestingly, I know for a fact that UNVA has also conducted other unethical or illegal things like selling diplomas to people outside the United States. It doesn’t surprise me too much that UNVA commits visa fraud.

  8. hello mr joef whoever u r: this is not an advt forum ,so plz dont make useless comments.u urgently require medical attention as ur mental state is not stable……………….get well soon……………….

    1. Huh?
      First, I don’t advertise anything.
      Second, your comment speaks for itself. You obviously have no arguments, and are reduced to insults. How pathetic you guys are.
      I am amazed that you are so eager to show to the world that UNVA and the people who signed up with it are frauds…

        1. What a lame response…
          The insults didn’t work, now you try it this way?
          Geez, grow up. Once you have grown up you will realize that I have been right all along.

          1. Someone gave short and cool response and you got frustrated what to respond. where is yr sharp knife? Don’t you have anything else to response. you typed same comments in every forum and blogs..insult, fraud, diploma mills, sharp knife (all based less comments) that you have been keep posting since you started LOL !! How pathetic and helpless are you?? You need to grow up narrow mind.

          2. @ussystem
            The same comments in every forum is only necessary because people like you don’t want to listen.
            Deportation seems to be the only thing you understand…
            My “narrow mind” is about following the law. It seems that you want to live a lawless life. Go ahead, do that in your country. In the Western World, the rule of law applies.
            UNVA is a diploma mill, a fraud. The March article in the “Chronicle of Higher Education” showed that quite nicely. It also proved what I’ve been saying for the last year. The same with TVU. Ms. Su of TVU always claimed to be following the law, even, similar to the “Georgetown” BS from James, claiming that UC Berkeley does the same online stuff.
            You guys rehashing that horse manure only shows that UNVA is indeed TVU Version 2.

  9. You seem to have negative attitude mr joef.Just wait for few days and u ll get to know what UNVA is and at that time that will be big punch on your face.you will face the music of that punch for the rest of your life

    1. On the contrary, I have a very positive attitude, to all people who are doing things the right way.
      The only negative attitude is towards people who try to cheat, towards people who try to get around the laws.
      UNVA is a diploma mill, essentially selling CPT. The same thing TVU did. And I speak about that, I criticize that. The laws of this country allow me to do that. You may have heard of free speech…
      And I suggest you apologize for your ridiculous threat. TVU’s Ms. Su once threatened me with bodily harm. Didn’t help her. I am not intimidated by such stuff. Dogs that bark and all that…

    2. This was posted on the Murthy forum after the raid on TVU:
      “Why don’t you people listen to Joef. I did not and am suffering now. I have an anklet monitor because of this TVU issue. I asked them if I could join ITU and they told me that I am in removal proceedings and ITU is next in their list along with Herguan and UNVA. Apparently they have been running sting operations at these univs and everything will come to light. The reason for the delay now is due to the sheer number of International students involved in all of these universities.”

      ‘nuf said.
      UNVA is toast.

    3. One more thing: You have exposed yourself as a UNVA employee…
      Nobody else would know what UNVA is supposed to announce in a few days…
      Thanks for confirming that you are indeed an astro-turfer.
      As you have found out the hard way, my posts are designed to elicit such responses from fakers, like astro-turfers. Works all the time with intellectually challenged people like you guys…

    4. So, is this the oh so great news you asked me to wait for?

      Mr. Lee, UNVA’s chancellor with the kinky personal life has resigned today, according to a letter on the UNVA website.
      New Acting Chancellor is a K. Habib Khan. Mr. Khan seems to have been at Stratford University, also in VA, and also considered somewhat shady (but at least accredited), until sometime in 2010, last as Acting Dean of their Business School. That’s what I got from a quick Google search. Stratford doesn’t have his name listed anywhere on their current website.

      Certainly not a “big punch on my face”… I had expected it at least a week earlier, given the bad press, even in the Huffington Post/AOL… It looks to me as if he got essentially forced out. Maybe he gets made the “bad guy”, the guy responsible for the situation UNVA finds itself in…

  10. Can’t u able to finish in one reply you dumb ? I think you realize things after you post it or murthy firm suggest you to type words or else they wont pay u.you narrow minded..You never understand simple thing..Keep barking without sense that’s yr way..UNVA tells what’s going on to their students unlike others univ from where you got some passing degree and it doesn’t mean people are employee there.That’s just common sense. don’t u understand that simple language..Who gave u degree without testing your English score?? Which fake univ selling this kind of paper to joeF..i think murthy firm knows better plz ask them if you dont hv any idea from where did u get yr passing degree…expecting 3-4 reply tomorrow..thanks..

    1. Alright everyone, I think we’ve established that you don’t agree with each other. Maybe we can leave it at that?

      1. We will see soon what happens when the 30 days ICE gave UNVA run out.
        I am confident that ICE has enough material to shut down UNVA for good.
        And there are still a few other institutions with a similar business model waiting to get raided and shut down.
        Unfortunately, as long as there are too many people willing to sign up with such frauds, to come to the US by hook or by crook, these kinds of discussions will continue, here or elsewhere. There was a similar thread on the website of the news organization that broke news of the TVU raid, with a bunch of people attacking me (futile, of course), and there will be similar threads when institutions like Herguan, ITU, or Takshila are raided.
        And finally, I like to point to one more website, from somebody who obviously understands the issues (just to make sure, I don’t know the author of that blog): http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/6-universities/

        1. I dont know about other Univ. but UNVA students are not in fault and never will be.UNVA students are not same as TVU..They know how to show their innocent and to whom.Just think practically, why they didn’t shutdown UNVA at the same time same like TVU if they have really found anything..There were students there taking classes and nothing wrong with UNVA..If you want to bark and argue or post anything,most welcome but result will be in favor of students..I AM WITH STUDENTS ONLY…sure lets wait for result and then will talk..

          1. So, you personally know every single UNVA student, you personally know all their history in the US, you personally know all that these 2400 students do in their spare time?
            Is that really what you are claiming?
            If that is so, please post all the names, and addresses of all the 2400 UNVA students…
            Don’t you realize how ridiculous your claims are?
            You may be able to say that YOU are innocent. But that’s the ONLY thing you could say.
            You are not a spokesperson for UNVA, you don’t have intimate knowledge of the lifes of every single UNVA student.
            So, please stop claiming something completely ridiculous. Thank you.

          2. From people who were with UNVA last year:
            “I like UNVA because of fast admission process and co-op flexibility. I am also looking into Rowan. Given that UNVA is not accredited, I would like to know the chances of getting a visa at Hyderabad US Consulate.”
            “By the way if i say my experience of the interview
            VO knows about the UNVA and there is very less chance to get visa (I got that my luck and my past records of study) I almost done here with study so there is no make sense to change university now.
            One other thing for CPT do not take admission b’coz UNVA provide it from 1st day. You will possibly twist rule of the F1 and CPT. If you really want to study go get admission to the other university. Even if you wan to come on the UNVA i20 and if hope fully you will get visa. then my suggestion is change the university from 2nd sem.”
            And that’s just one thread out of many.
            Oh, and one of the people, handle “positron”, posted on the UNVA Facebook site as late as May 19, 2011…
            And there is lots and lots more. I am sure ICE has copies of all these forum discussions, and FB posts. Maybe that’s why the FB group created after the UNVA raid is private, so that people like me (and ICE, etc.) can not read them??? Of course, that rather shows a lack of understanding of the Internet… ICE can easily subpoena FB to give them copies of the posts on such private groups… For me, I don’t care. I have enough evidence already, copies of publicly available websites.

            The bottom line is that all the evidence supports what I have been saying. All you have is un-sourced claims. Nothing that will survive for long…

  11. LOL. UNVA management doesn’t tell you the important things…
    They just tell you enough to get you to give them more money.
    They know exactly how intellectually challenged you guys are.

    And it is obviously you who lack education. You can’t even write proper English sentences. What is “u”, “hv” or “yr”? Is your keyboard broken, missing some keys? Did you give so much money to UNVA that you can’t afford a new keyboard?

    I understand very well that you have to justify spending tens of thousands of dollars, probably from your parents, on a fraud like UNVA. It is hard to face the facts. But you will have no choice. You are a disgrace to your family, and to your country.
    UNVA is doomed, and all the people who didn’t get out of there will go under with it.
    You gambled with your future in the US and you lost. Your posts only show your desperation to cling at the false hope UNVA was selling you. The UNVA owner is laughing at you and the people who are still at UNVA and refuse to see reality.

    1. As I said to ussystem, I’m glad you’ve been able to engage in this discussion, and I think we’ve established both of your positions. Let’s not let it devolve further into personal attacks, please. Thanks.

      1. BTW, this has nothing to do with different “positions.”
        This has to do with astro-turfing by UNVA students, a fake grassroots campaign, initiated by a letter from the UNVA chancellor, posted on the UNVA website.
        Astro-turfing of course only works if the target doesn’t know that it was initiated by the organization with the vested interest. UNVA failed with that…
        As with the TVU case, I will be vindicated in the end. In the TVU case, quite a number of people have thanked me for ringing the alarm bell early enough so that they could get out before TVU went under. I am sure I am going to get such thank-you posts as well when the UNVA case has settled.
        People who want to defend UNVA are entitled to their opinion, I just know that they are wrong, and in the end, these people will suffer. But well, they are adults and responsible for their actions, or in-actions. I warn people, and if some people believe more in the cult, their problem, not mine.

        1. Stop comparing with other uni. TVU was fraud and got punished but in UNVA case no one will come to you and thank you..I am damn sure about that..
          UNVA didn’t publish any false statement and in this situation who would do that to get more trouble? But some people never use their heads. WE DONT NEED YR ADVICE..PLEASE..We know what we are doing and we are happy with that and result will speak for you.Lets wait and watch instead of barking here.

      2. Yes, this has nothing to do with different positions.
        UNVA students are innocent, right and they should not suffer.I am only with students.UNVA posted letter on their website based on Sevis written approval. You are being Astro-turfer here and i think you are kind of. its suite you better.It’s really not necessary to create wrong story to justify your false statements. Try harder next time with some solid proof.

        1. LOL. I suggest you look up the term “astroturfing”.
          It is YOU who have this fake grassroots campaign, initiated by the UNVA administration.
          The proof is all over the Internet.
          For example, here:
          “The university now claims accreditation from the little-known American University Accreditation Council, which is not recognized by the Department of Education. The accreditor, however, has a professional-looking Web site featuring a photograph of new graduates, dressed in caps and gowns, holding their diplomas aloft in front of a billowing American flag. The site also has a photo of a modern office building, presumably its headquarters.
          But drive to the address on the contact page and instead you’ll find a bustling auto-body repair shop.”
          Until a few days ago, the UNVA website still claimed this fake accreditation. It has now been taken off the UNVA website, but that’s of course too little, too late. Everybody interested in this, including ICE, are likely to have screenshots. I routinely create local copies of websites that may change. Modern web browsers make that easy…

  12. People can write anything or make thousands of blogs without any base or proof, never count..UNVA did or not, no one knows but right people will decide that so just leave it for them..you are no body to tell me and i don’t need yr advice..i trust in US system.UNVA students didn’t do anything and they should not suffer and never will.UNVA got all sevis access back and operate normally and approved by sevis it self..plz STOP compare with TVU without any solid proof..you have no clue and never will be bcoz ICE, FBI guys didnt find it when they raided..So stop comparing with other Univ..

    1. The proof is there, in lots and lots of posts on the Internet.
      And ICE has apparently done sting operations. And they have seized lots of documents during the raid.
      Further, you can NOT speak for each and every student at UNVA. Mr. Ho, the UNVA owner, having been interviewed by the “Chronicle of Higher Education” for their March article, didn’t dispute that there are UNVA students living in Ohio and New York. If these students indeed commute to Virigina every day, I am sure they can provide the evidence, e.g., airline tickets, train tickets, etc.
      In reality, nobody would commute from as far away as Ohio to an unknown, non-accredited university in Virginia. The money would be much better spent going to a local, accredited university.
      The fact that UNVA got SEVP access back temporarily doesn’t mean that ICE has withdrawn their notice of intent to revoke. This just helps with ICE not having to handle transfers.
      UNVA is similar to TVU, since both have essentially sold CPT. They both advertised CPT from day one, they both have/had people working on CPT outside of normal commuting distance from the school.
      And I don’t think ICE nor the FBI would tell UNVA, nor some students, what they found or didn’t find. It will take months to go through all the paperwork. ICE is still going through the TVU paperwork, and still interviewing students.
      To show you that you are wrong: If ICE and FBI didn’t find anythin, why then would UNVA still prepare to send an answer to ICE, as their provost said in a letter posted on the UNVA website?
      Again and again, you show that UNVA has something to hide.
      No real university would tell their students to post what amounts to lies on some forums.

  13. I didn’t see anything from Mr.Ho said that our students are in Ohio, etc..who would say like that about students..pathetic..For your kind info, I can speak for all students bcoz i know everything about them.All people are staying near by Virginia and if suppose couple of are staying in NY,they travel to VA and its $30 per trip.People are getting education in UNVA to attend the classes and doing everything what other univ students have to do and what rules says.So plz STOP justify your self with false statements.
    Let me tell you this way, UNVA investigation has been continue when TVU happened and they didnt find anything till MAY and after no clue found they raided the UNIV with some CPT issue. UNVA was aware of that and they will figure in out and as i said there is NO rules in SEVIS website that Univ. can’t allow CPT from first day. If you hv proof or rules to show, please show us..I never see this kind of link from you instead of posting some ridiculous blogs links. Education system has no rules about CPT and loop holes. Without proof stop talking about CPT issue. you never have a knowledge of those things so please leave it..
    About provost letter, you dont know what allegation ICE charged to UNVA and they have deadline and they are planning to reply before notice..They know far more better than you when they want to send reply to ICE..They are running Institute not like some senseless and proof-less blogs like you..
    To justify your self against some false statements and some wrong people is called self defense and has nothing to hide..ICE and SEVIS called so many students to investigate and i am damn sure they will not find any single students who didn’t follow the rules and why UNVA told students to do so after all this things happen and why students follow them, its again just common sense..use yr head..Once again i am with STUDENTS not with UNVA.. STUDENTS SHOULD NOT SUFFER.

    I have nothing to say anything anymore or to hide anything, result will tell whole story and conclusion as well..just wait and watch…NO MORE ADVICE PLZ..WAIT FOR RESULT IF YOU CAN OR ELSE WASTE YOUR TIME TO TYPE SOMETHING BASELESS AND IRRELEVANT.

    1. https://chronicle.com/article/Little-Known-Colleges-Exploit/126822/
      “The heart of that model, according to Daniel Ho, its founder and the majority owner, is its ability to enroll foreign students in the United States. Nearly all of its students are here on visas, and the vast majority are from India. Like Tri-Valley, Northern Virginia has students who live in other states, some as far away as New York and Ohio, but university officials insist that, unlike Tri-Valley, those students—most of whom study computer science or business administration—commute regularly to Virginia to attend classes.”

      UNVA did not dispute that at least some of their students live in Ohio and NY. And commuting from there to a little-known, unaccredited university in Viriginia is very unlikely. As I said, if these people really commute to UNVA I am sure they have the boarding passes, or the train tickets…
      Your continuing attempts to defend the indefensible looks more desperate as the days go on.

    2. So, you claim you “know” that all UNVA students live in Virginia, but UNVA itself has admitted that some UNVA students live as far away as Ohio and New York.
      So, who am I to believe? Somebody anonymous on a forum, or UNVA officials who got interviewed by the journalists of the “Chronicle of Higher Education”?
      I go with the latter.
      Or are you saying that UNVA officials lied to the journalists???

      1. Read properly, I said near by Virginia state. It could be in DC,PA,NJ anywhere.It just 3-4 hours drive and there is no rule that people cant live in other states. According to “Chronicle of Higher Education”, suppose If 1-2 students have some personal problem and live in Ohio or NY, they supposed to commute from their and they did..I know someone who came form CA in his first quarter and after that he moved to PA.For couple of students personal problem, you or NOBODY can’t consider 3000 students in same range..ICE and FBI took everything from UNVA when they raided and they will verify all address and students details and they are keep doing but i am damn sure they wont find anything wrong in this case..

        1. Well, you claimed that ALL UNVA students are innocent.
          I gave counterexamples. One such example is enough to render your claim incorrect.
          As for the student who came from CA, if the person did online studies, the person violated the terms of the F1. Plain and simple. ICE will find out, and such people end up in a lot of trouble.
          Nobody flies across country all the time to an unknown, non-accredited university. Claiming that is just nonsense. Such person would have to have a lot of money available for airline tickets…
          Similarly with people from NY or Ohio. This is more than a 3-4 hour drive. More like a 6-7 hour drive, one way. That means 12-14 hours on the road, 8 hours of classes, and sleep when? Last I looked, a day only has 24 hours…

          1. No need of yr counter example..It’s yr thoughts and negative person always have negative thoughts towards all mankind. totally understood..UNVA STUDENTS ARE INNOCENT AND SHOULD NOT SUFFER. thanks

        2. The counterexamples show that you are wrong. They show that there are UNVA students who are not innocent.
          Basic highschool math.
          I have proven you wrong. Case closed.

  14. Truth never needs support or never hide and no need to hide. If that’s the case, yes they have to have some tickets or proof and if not then just deport those students and that’s the rule. Rules needs to follow but if that was the case then UNVA definitely did actions on those students in past. Continue defense is needed when people are not ready to listen and to keep our spirit high.

    1. So, you admit that not all students may follow the rules. Now we are getting somewhere.
      That UNVA “did actions” after the TVU raid is not surprising. But that was too little, too late. And I am pretty sure ICE will find ongoing violations. They have all the paperwork now, and go through that. As with the TVU case, that can take a while, due to the sheer volume.
      It is well known that UNVA was popular due to them giving out CPT from day one for working anywhere. After the TVU raid, that abuse of CPT obviously has declined sharply. That was to be expected. But that doesn’t mean that UNVA all of a sudden has a clean slate. They will still suffer sanctions for previous abuse. And with UNVA students, as late as March 2011, still living in Ohio and NY, it looks as if the abuse of the regulations continued way past the TVU raid. With ICE going through the documents they collected during the raid, it is very likely that they will find evidence for abuse of the law by UNVA and at least some of the UNVA students.
      And that of course continues to mean that UNVA is doomed. Which is all I have been saying all along.

      1. Are you a lawyer? wow.. you are caching my words but in wrong direction..no worries..it doesn’t matter what you think or so called paid firm who give this idea to bark here.UNVA STUDENTS ARE INNOCENT AND SHOULD NOT SUFFER. thanks

        1. Sigh. I am not a lawyer, but I have given you counterexamples.
          There are some UNVA students who are not innocent.
          You can not speak for all UNVA students, you do not know their individual circumstances, you do not even know all of them personally.

        2. If you didn’t mean what you said, then I suggest you learn how to express yourself better.
          That is something that you learn in graduate programs at real universities…
          I have published scientific papers, and in such papers, every sentence has to convey what it was intended to convey. I can back up everything I say with references and quotes from other people. Whereas you only claim something without any evidence.
          And finally, get it into your head that I don’t get paid for posting about UNVA. I get paid for writing good software, some of which you may use even now…
          It is you who astro-turfs on behalf of UNVA management.

  15. Well according to me what’s happening with UNVA is like a moving violation ticket. Yes they have broken rules which might cost them points and even chances of license being suspended. But you cannot blame the people driving on the same road (which are the students) I don’t blame the students for this. If someone says that student broke the laws it was just because they thought they were legally allowed to which was misleading .UNVA on the contrary have good teachers. I have checked the courses that they offer with some of the reputed universities and it looks like they are at least not fooling in that. I know for fact that many students attend classes regularly. Some students who don’t attend classes are at their own risk.

    I would sincerely advice UNVA students to earn a career before earning money. Trust me money will come naturally to you (Saying by Experience). This really won’t make sense to those who have financial troubles. But I would say this shortcut is of no real use if you are scared all the times. You are not a fugitive and please don’t become one. People who have transferred to this university to save their status should follow all the status rules. I know I am not saying any thing different from what people already know about. It is just a opinion from a person who is not from UNVA.

    I believe that ICE will give UNVA a chance to correct their mistakes. If they get the SACS accreditation (I checked their site and UNVA is an applicant for this accreditation) then lots of things will start falling in place for future of current UNVA students. If UNVA is a business than follow the business rules. The main problem of UNVA is that it went for quick money but now they will think about long term money first after the raid.

    I think that UNVA is not going to close down or at the least the students will remain unharmed and will be offered precise alternatives. If this happens than there will be a lot of changes which will be good for all people associated with this university. This is just my opinion which has noting to do with the outcome.

    1. According to information posted elsewhere (trackitt), UNVA withdrew their SACS application. And SACS does no longer show UNVA as an applicant. I checked that a few days ago when I saw the post on trackitt.
      From the post on trackitt:
      “SACS returned the application with the recommendation that we withdraw. They gave several reasons. The most difficult to correct was the lack of an acceptable Institutional Effectiveness Plan. This is a process where we show that we collect data about the effectiveness of our university (graduation rates, learning outcomes, whether students get jobs after graduation, etc.). We also have to have ways to identify problems and to correct them and to show an ongoing history (with proper documentation) of following the plan.
      We agreed to withdraw the application, which is the reason that I am now able to write this article. We can resubmit after we have addressed the areas in which they have concerns.”
      My assumption is that this came from Mr. Lee, either in a newsletter or addressed to UNVA students recently.

      And the Notice of Intent to revoke UNVA’s SEVP approval is much more serious than a simple moving violation.
      BTW, by using that term “moving violation”, you indicate that you may be in the legal profession. Maybe Mr. Whittaker, UNVA’s lawyer?
      “Normal” people call it speeding ticket…
      And there are moving violations that can land you in jail, e.g., DUI, DWI, reckless driving…

  16. To ussystem

    I don’t think you are a UNVA student who comes from India. Because, atleast you use correct grammer. Probably you might be an employee of UNVA. Why I say this because, only employees try to protect their “company” this hard. Perfect example is the Trackitt thread on Trivalley Univ. Recently we have seen an employee of UoNA in Murthy forum trying to canvas new “students” and sametime mentioning that they do everything as per law.

    I have almost completely read Joe’s posts in most of the forums. If you haven’t read, I suggest you to do so. Again start reading from the year 2009 atleast. Then come back and post your reply if you feel you are still correct. Do it only if you are a UNVA student because I don’t expect a UNVA employee would change his/ her mind by reading that.

    1. I think you meant “unknown1”. That person may indeed be UNVA’s lawyer, or at least somebody who has had legal training (real training, not UNVA’s “training”.)
      In the long trackitt thread on TVU, what shocked me most was the lack of comprehensible English on the part of the person(s) from TVU using the “RisingSun” handle.
      I didn’t do all the hard work there, a poster with the handle “sangiano” did most of the heavy lifting. I often just collect what others have written elsewhere, distill the essence, and present that.
      Thanks for reading my posts, btw.

  17. @Sasi: Looks like Murthy firm sent you here to support someone. hahaha..This is open post to comments for everyone and i don’t need to tell you who am i( keep guessing). You better check yr “grammar”. you don’t even know how to write the “Grammar” spelling correctly(shame on you) and trying to teach me..you fool.. read my comments properly and then comments. I never support UNVA. I only support UNVA students..I don’t need to read some non sense forum like you because i know what is better and what is not. I don’t need anyone’s advice at least from someone who doesn’t have any knowledge about what he/she writing.UNVA STUDENTS ARE INNOCENT AND SHOULD NOT SUFFER

    1. I you care about the students, then you do a pretty bad job.
      If you really cared about the students at UNVA, you would tell them to get out of there ASAP…
      But you only whistle in the dark. Claiming that they are innocent when at least some a clearly not only shows your desperation.
      Somebody who really wanted to help the students would take a step back and assess the situation. And the situation is that UNVA is likely to lose SEVP approval. The situation is that this would put the people who are still with UNVA at great danger. So, the prudent advice to people still at UNVA is to get out of there. *That* is what is helping them, not some astro-turfing that nobody really cares about.

    2. And of course, when people get out of UNVA, that means less money to UNVA, less money for UNVA employees, UNVA employees losing their jobs.
      That seems to be your main concern. Yet another sign that you are not even a UNVA student, but rather a UNVA employee, disguising himself as student advocate, but in reality not caring about the well-being of the students at all.

  18. To USSystem

    I admit my mistake for using wrong spelling. But I still suggest you to read the posts on other forums. By the way, I don’t know Joe and who he is. I know many students have escaped by not joining the traps like TVU, UNVA and ITU after following his words.

  19. It’s different perspective. why don’t you join and fight for students instead of telling them fraud. you can tell whatever you want to tell about Univ. because no one knows administrative mistakes. Here its not like TVU case or else i would never support them..You are keep telling to transfer to other univ. and i am trying to FIGHT FOR STUDENTS RIGHTS. It’s impossible for those who already finished their 1 yrs or about to finish or who are on OPT. What about their time and money and hard works who never break any rules ?? If Univ. did mistake let them punish hardly but students..no ways..there are lots of students who got visa on UNVA I-20s with showing all correct documents otherwise they would never get visa from India. Why US Gov. issue those visa if they already knows about non accreditation and other things?..Many of them came from middle class families and i personally know how their family adjust money for their child. I can not be just blind for those students and even US Gov. either and they will probably know that and that’s why they want some fare decision. If Univ. has done mistake from their end and students hasn’t then WHY??? If they really want to withdrawn their sevp access, let them do that but just transfer those 3000 students to another Univ where all credits can be transferred or some public funded schools and who will give the guarantee, if somehow accredited schools loose their accreditation and US Gov will not raid on those schools where they are keep telling to transfer to those accredited univ…No one has answer for those questions and till then i will support UNVA students..UNVA STUDENTS ARE INNOCENT AND SHOULD NOT SUFFER

    1. You really seem to lack the knowledge of what accreditation means.
      Accreditation ensures a lower bound on the quality of the education.
      For UNVA, what does an A in a class mean? What prevents a lecturer from giving As to everybody? Class attendance gives you an A. Did you learn anything? No.
      There is no quality control in non-accredited institutions. That’s why no real, accredited university will accept credits from non-accredited schools. They would risk their own accreditation if they did, they would devalue the degrees they issue if they did.
      That’s why it is a complete, and I mean COMPLETE waste of money to sign up with a non-accredited institution. All my posts on all the forums I frequent have emphasized that. By going to a non-accredited institution, you burn money, throw it away, gift it to the owner of that institution.
      Yet another reason to get out of there ASAP. Stop throwing money away without getting anything in return. A “degree” from a non-accredited institution is a worthless piece of paper.

      And one more thing: For their SEVP approval, UNVA, like every other non-accredited institution that want to get SEVP approval, had to provide letters from at least 3 real, accredited universities that would accept credits from UNVA. So, ask the UNVA DSO to transfer to one of these institutions.
      In the case of TVU, at least 2 of these letters have been fraudulent (the 3rd one was from the parent institution of the Herguan diploma mill, the parent institution being an accredited Eastern Medicine institution, I wonder how they would be able to accept credits in CS…)
      My suspicion is that there is a similar situation with UNVA. They haven’t made public the names of the 3 accredited universities that accept credit transfers.

      And finally, Americans who sign up with non-accredited institutions have the same problems. The only option is to sue the institution to try and get the money back. But often, that’s just throwing good money after bad, and the money paid for tuition is lost forever.

  20. Join what? The FB group? I don’t join closed groups. I want discussions to be open. Besides, do you really think I would disclose my real name? TVU’s Ms. Su already tried that…
    In any case, people can read my posts and post questions on the forums I frequent, trackitt, MurthyForum, Mr. Khanna’s forum.

    Further, this “they come from middle class families and their families gave them their hard-earned money” doesn’t quite fly. If that was the case, then they should have been even more careful in selecting a real university, and not waste their parents’ money on a fraud.
    And after the TVU raid and the outcry over that in India, up to the parliament, they should have been even more cautious. Why didn’t they change to a real, accredited university then?
    The bottom line is: they wanted to get to the US, no matter what. And *that* mindset is what made them blind to the risks of signing up with a fraud. If you want to help them, tell them to open their eyes. Tell them to get out of UNVA ASAP. *That* would be helping them. What you are currently doing is only prolonging their suffering, is only making it worse for them. When UNVA loses SEPV approval, all the students still with UNVA will be in even more trouble. They need to get out now. They are still in status and can transfer to a real, accredited university. They won’t be able to do that once UNVA loses SEVP approval. Of course, with UNVA not being accredited, credits can’t be transferred. No real university will accept credits from non-accredited institutions, and the US government can not force any university to do so.
    So, again, if you really want to help the UNVA students, tell them to get out of there.

  21. From one article on rediff that talks mostly about TVU:
    “Ashok Kolla, chairman of the student committee of TANA, said he has been receiving calls every second since the incident happened.
    Talking to rediff.com, Ashok said, “The most important aspect is status of students. We are working with some well-reputed universities in the United States like Murray State University in Kentucky and the University of Southern Mississippi. They are ready to accept UNVA students, but would not transfer the credits.””

  22. Well JoeF and Sasi, I am neither a UNVA student nor a UNVA employee. Well I just decided to post a reply because it was an open discussion and people are allowed to say what they feel is right. I am not trying to protect any one here. (It’s rude to say this but it is not worth my time).I am not a UNVA student who came from India but I was a student who came from India. Well sasi, i took your advice and read the forums (As much as I could). Nothing changes my opinion about student who are attending lectures regularly and following F1 status rules. They deserve rights to a proper education. I also support those students who are doing valid CPT as per F1 laws.
    I wrote the post for the students who are regretting working somewhere else at the cost of their education and would be thinking what would have happened if I had not done that. I have done my Masters from a reputed University but I always used to think about breaking rules just for some easy life .But I was not allowed by my university and it turned out good for me. If UNVA starts following the rules it will not only help the students but also UNVA in the long run.
    JoeF i did not know about SACS news. I will do my research more thoroughly next time. I don’t believe that closing down UNVA going to solve any problems of the students. I think UNVA has improved a bit after Tri-Valley incident. If ICE is targeting these universities it is not happening in day or weeks. They are taking their appropriate time to do the research and collect proper evidences to charge the schools. It is possible that these short listed universities would improve their process and educational standards. I believe that UNVA should also be given some time to improve in a probationary timeframe. Hence I don’t want UNVA to close down and should be given a chance for improving their system. Getting an accreditation can be a start of this improvement.
    My post was a sincere attempt to share my thoughts. I am not a normal guy without any extraordinary skills but was a part of the US education system at some point. Right education always serves in the long run. Let’s wait and watch what UNVA’s response is and I still think it is not going to be very surprising for me.

    1. “Nothing changes my opinion about student who are attending lectures regularly and following F1 status rules. They deserve rights to a proper education.”
      And such people can transfer to a real, accredited university.
      If they believe they can take their credits with them, they are delusional, though. And that has nothing to do with F1, but with the fact that UNVA is not accredited.
      No real, accredited university will accept credits from non-accredited institutions. The only very rare exceptions I found had to do with religious studies (which is a whole different cesspool, one that TVU originally tried to tie itself to…)
      The right education means going to accredited universities. And CPT is very rare at legitimate universities. It is incidental to the classes, and not advertised to foreign students. Any kind of advertisement of CPT is a red flag, an indication that the institution is shady. Not being accredited exacerbates that. Claiming to be “accredited” by a fake accreditation agency, as UNVA did on their website until a week ago exacerbates it further. Claiming to “follow all the laws”, as UNVA students do here and elsewhere, also exacerbates it. People from the University of California, people from MIT, people from University of Michigan, people from SUNY (State University of New York), people from Johns Hopkins, to just name a few universities, have no need to claim that their institution follows the laws. Loud shouting of “I follow the law” is a common tactic of some public figures, with the fall inevitably coming soon after.
      If UNVA gets a “probationary period” or not is pretty much irrelevant. As long as they are not accredited, as long as they advertise CPT, as long as they have foreign students living outside of normal commuting range, they are shady and need to be avoided. They would have to change their business model completely, by not advertising CPT, for example. But then, why would people want to sign up with them? If there is no “advantage” by getting fake CPT, why would people sign up with a non-accredited institution? People then would be more likely to go to real, accredited universities, where they can actually use the degree. So, one way or the other, UNVA is doomed. UNVA exploiting loopholes in the SEVP laws worked somewhat until TVU got raided. As I’ve said lots of times, Ms. Su of TVU, her greed, killed CPT. In fact, DSOs at real universities nowadays openly say that they won’t approve any CPT anymore. See some of the comments in the numerous articles following the March “Chronicle” article.

    2. And one more thing: Of course UNVA has improved a bit after the TVU raid. That’s not surprising. Every one of these shady institutions did. Some even before the TVU raid, e.g., Herguan, which in Dec. 2010 started requiring people to actually attend classes in person. One person complained about that on the Murthy forum…
      And this stuff was mentioned in the March “Chronicle” article, which had Herguan lose a quarter of their students after they changed their rules, and Herguan then somewhat backtracked.
      The problem with these institutions is their business model. None of these institutions could survive if they strictly followed the rules. They would go down to 10-20 students instead of 2400. Much like ITU when it lost accreditation in 2004. 18 students, close to bankruptcy. Then ITU found the “work-study” loophole, offering CPT to work anywhere, including as convenience store clerks. And it was soon thriving, much like UNVA is thriving. Some of ITU’s “students”, working in the Mid-West in convenience stores, got killed during robberies. TVU also gave out CPT to work in convenience stores, as security guard, etc. It is likely that ICE will find or has found similar violations in the UNVA case.
      I don’t think UNVA has found a “magic formula” to get 2400 foreign students into a non-accredited institution completely unknown in the US, without law violations.

  23. Anyone who wants to listen joeF, please read his all comments and then take decision because he was telling all UNVA and all other Univ students fraud. In reply to my comment, he said your family and you are desperate to come here and do not think before apply.Does he think you all are fool? You don’t have any rights to tell about their families and their decision.Instead of telling about their decision, you should tell proper reason why US Gov gave visa on UNVA I-20s. You are only a big mouth jerk. you have no clue and only telling about those forum where shit things happen.UNVA STUDENTS ARE INNOCENT AND SHOULD NOT SUFFER

    1. Sigh. How often do you need to get it explained to you that for SEVP approval, an institution doesn’t necessarily have to be accredited???
      Repeating the same question over and over does not change the answer.
      Read the rules for SEVP approval.
      It is very obvious that you don’t have any arguments, and are once again reduced to personal attacks. How shameful of you.

  24. I really don’t understand, which company gives this kind of job to software engineer…To just post some irrelevant and base less comments to here and there. I think murthy firm. anyway, now i feel that it’s not worth to talk or reply to you because you looks like some mental case and think this is war and always ready to fight.Best of luck and i will see you soon. Be ready to have some happy punch from students.”UNVA STUDENTS ARE INNOCENT AND SHOULD NOT SUFFER”

    1. Oh, and if the threats of bodily harm continue, I may have to report this to the District Attorney. It is a crime to threaten people with bodily harm.

      1. Insults and in particular threats of bodily harm are *never* an excuse.
        UNVA is a fraud,a nd your insults don’t change that.
        They only show that I am right.
        UNVA has to be able to show the names of 3 real, accredited universities that accept credit transfers from UNVA. Why don’t you ask them for these names, and then transfer there???
        And post the names of these universities here…
        Or does UNVA not have these names? That would be a violation of the rules right there, and would give ICE reason to revoke UNVA’s SEVP approval for good. In the nearly a month since the raid, UNVA has not provided this information, apparently not even to you guys. Why not???
        Instead of posting insults and threatening bodily harm, do something constructive for a change, and get the names of the 3 real, accredited universities that accept credit transfers from UNVA.
        Come on. I challenge you to provide this information here by tomorrow. Can you do it? Or are you all hat and no cattle?

    2. On Aug. 21, I asked ussystem:
      “Instead of posting insults and threatening bodily harm, do something constructive for a change, and get the names of the 3 real, accredited universities that accept credit transfers from UNVA.
      Come on. I challenge you to provide this information here by tomorrow. Can you do it? Or are you all hat and no cattle?”

      Now it is Aug. 25, and he still hasn’t provided that information.
      So, he is indeed all hat and no cattle. A poser, a wannabe.
      There aren’t any real, accredited universities that accept credits from UNVA.
      The conclusion: UNVA is done for.

    1. It’s just response to your insulted comments.If you say anything wrong about UNVA or other univ students or their innocent families, It’s damn personal to me as well. So please don’t insult others and you wont get response back. How pathetic you are..you are impossible..Try to be nice with others.

  25. OK… In case UNVA had to be closed or a UNVA student wants to transfer to another university, can you name one accredited university who accepts the credits from UNVA? I googled for the same and didn’t find any. Or is it too confidential that no one should know?

  26. To Ussytems : I think students will be well taken care of unlike in case of TVU. My urge remains to students still remain the same. Please continue to attend classes and follow the status rules. Students always give an institution a good name and raises its standards .So unite and do the right thing which I believe students have already started doing. I respect your sentiments that the students should not suffer and they will not (I sincerely hope that).

    JoeF I am a student of one of the universities you described in your earlier post. I did my CPT but then I used my work as a part of my Master’s thesis. I did claim my three internship credits and also six thesis credits. Hence I will not be against CPT. It has not only helped me in my current job. I am against un-authorized employment which has nothing to do with your curriculam.

    Lets wait and watch for UNVA’s response and hope everyone is satisfied

    1. “I did my CPT but then I used my work as a part of my Master’s thesis.”

      That is indeed a legitimate use of CPT. You apply the knowledge of the topics learned in class in a real-world setting, which of course can be very helpful in your career.
      Unfortunately, that is not how TVU, UNVA, Herguan, ITU did things. They offered and may still offer CPT from day one, meaning the “student” does some job which has more often than not nothing to do with the curriculum. How can such a “student” even apply any knowledge, when he or she hasn’t even learned anything yet? That’s when people end up working as convenience store clerks.
      And more unfortunate, this abuse of CPT by TVU, UNVA, Herguan, ITU and others has resulted in a lot more scrutiny for CPT, basically killing even the legitimate CPT. I have nothing against legitimate CPT, but what TVU, UNVA, Herguan, ITU, etc. did and possibly still do with CPT from day one is in probably 99% of cases not legitimate.
      If you go through my post on forums, I have always argued against CPT from day one and always for legitimate CPT.

      In any case, for their SEVP approval, UNVA, like all non-accredited institutions, has to provide the names of at least 3 real, accredited universities that accept credit transfers from UNVA. If they can not provide that, their SEVP approval will get revoked. If they faked such letters (like what TVU did), they’d be in even more trouble.
      If such universities exist that accept credit transfers from UNVA, then then rants and threats of ussystem would be completely meaningless. UNVA students could just have gone to the UNVA DSO and ask for getting transferred to one of these universities. That would be “problem solved.” But instead, that person rants, and threats me with bodily harm here. That behavior tells me that there is no real, accredited university that accepts credit transfers from UNVA, and that he knows it. And in that case, UNVA is doomed, plain and simple, one thing leading to the next.
      Of course, Herguan and ITU, the two other notorious diploma mills, have the same problem. In a recent (July) article in the “Chronicle of Higher Education”, ITU officials claimed that UC, Stanford, SJSU would accept credits from ITU. Officials from these real institutions went on record to deny that. In the same article, a Herguan official refused to name the names of the 3 universities that accept credits from Herguan.
      And until we hear from UNVA which real, accredited universities accept their credits, I maintain that UNVA is a fraud.

      1. One correction: It was actually an article from the San Jose Mercury News: http://www.mercurynews.com/alameda-county/ci_18492754?nclick_check=1
        “ITU’s application acknowledges that it is unaccredited. ITU contends that it meets federal criteria because its credits are accepted by recognized universities — but no proof was submitted. School officials asserted to the newspaper that their courses are accepted by San Jose State, Santa Clara, Stanford and the University of California system — a claim all the universities say is not true.
        “We would not award any credit from either institution,” said Terri Eden, who oversees SJSU’s transfer credit policies.”
        “In an email response, Richard Friberg, the school’s vice president, said “this is a competitive market, releasing the names of the schools will cause the receiving schools to withdraw their letters since they do not want it known that they are supporting schools that are yet to be accredited. … you are not going to get HGU to expose the other schools.”

  27. I know that UNVA has done mistakes and that why all this is happening in the first case. I support the statement that CPT from day 1 should not be allowed .It should be allowed after 2 full semesters or 4 quarters .Till that time the student is really fully aware of the curriculum and what he wants to peruse a really career in. I have seen that some students also really don’t understand the meaning of CPT .UNVA has a course related to CPT but I think people have not been taking that course seriously.
    But UNVA also follows the documentation rules to update the sevis records of the students. That means that students are successful in getting the documentation to fool the system and law for CPT. UNVA should be more careful about this from next time (if there is one). If a student takes a legitimate CPT and fools UNVA and starts working in a grocery store it is his fault not UNVA’s. A person like that is not a student according to me because he is not learning anything. I don’t support them. But I am certain about this fact that all UNVA students are not like that. The percentage of such frauds are minimum (I don’t have any stats to prove this but I feel like that). Students who are really true should be treated well with good options which they don’t have to look for or think about. Transferring to other university is not a very easy option. If ICE decides to close down UNVA, they should provide a student a transitioning option rather than transferring option. (Please don’t ask me what is a transitioning option it is just a thought for the benefits of the students) .

    1. If a student works in a convenience store without work approval, that’s of course the student’s and the convenience store owner’s fault. In the case of TVU, ICE has the actual CPT approval from TVU for work in a 7-Eleven, for work as a security guard. See the indictment against Ms. Su: http://archive.recapthelaw.org/cand/240094/
      In the UNVA case, everything is still sealed. But if a student got CPT for working in a convenience store, it is both the student’s and the university’s fault. Now, UNVA got a new DSO, which can be seen as an admission that the old DSO did something wrong. UNVA hasn’t been communicating the reason for getting a new DSO.
      As far as “ICE should provide a transitioning option”, they have. They are allowing UNVA students to transfer to other universities. That differs from the TVU case. And I have encouraged UNVA students in all my posts to take that opportunity to get out of UNVA and into a real, accredited university. They can not transfer any credits. That has nothing to do with ICE, that has to do with UNVA not being accredited. Nobody can force real, accredited universities to accept credits from a non-accredited entity. Nobody. Not ICE, not the US government, not a state. Anybody thinking “it should be allowed” is delusional. If it was allowed, it would completely undermine the educational system in the US. If it was allowed, what would a degree from Stanford, MIT, UC, be worth? If anybody could just sign up with some non-accredited institution, get some As for being a warm body in a classroom, and then transfer the credits to get a degree from Stanford, MIT, or UC, what would such a degree be worth?
      Ergo, it is not going to happen.
      The only option for UNVA students is to transfer to a real, accredited university, and start their degree program from scratch. And that option is open to UNVA students at this time. I have urged them to use it, before it is too late.

  28. It is very tough to believe that UNVA has given CPT to a student to work in a convenience store because this is not only difficult to justify but it is unethical from educational perspective to sevis. Well I don’t know how UNVA managed to pull this off. I would like to see the charges that ICE has really put on UNVA before commenting. Advertising for new jobs at UNVA and applying for a new DSO is UNVA’s attempt to do things the right way and undo what they did earlier. I would support them if they are trying to do things the right way because it will be good for the students.
    Well I am not a great fan of transferring because it is not necessary that students who apply will get guaranteed admission even if they are ready to start the course from day1. I don’t want any student to lose his dreams of studying just because of a mishap which he might not be really involved in. Students would refrain from taking the alternative is there is uncertainty.
    Yes I don’t think any institution is going to accept credit from UNVA. When a student applies from India there are many credit evaluation agencies (like WES – I am still not sure about the name) who transfer the percentage system in India to GPA system. ICE or some agency should help UNVA students to evaluate their already completed course work which would make them acceptable for the other educational institutions. This is something I would call my idea of transitioning because there is no uncertainty with the future of the students.
    This can only be an alternative if UNVA closes down else students should continue to believe in themselves and continue their education.
    I personally believe that UNVA has not fooled students with its course offering as there are educated teachers teaching the courses. I am just considering the fact that ICE has so far not said anything about the coursework. (Well they have not said anything so far hence I might be wrong in my conclusion)

  29. Well, TVU issued CPT for work in convenience stores, ITU did as well. These are demonstrated cases. I don’t know if UNVA did, but given that their business model is similar to TVU, ITU, Herguan, I wouldn’t be surprised.
    Of course it is unethical, but UNVA even listed a fake accreditation agency on their website, to get the misleading appearance that they are accredited… That’s something that before UNVA I have only seen from the diploma mills that send out spam, advertising “degrees” for “life experience” and similar stuff. UNVA only removed that from their website a few days ago. Misleading students that way is unethical right there. If they are unethical with that, what other unethical things did they do?
    If they are trying to do things the right way now, that’s rather too little too late. If they needed an ICE raid to change their ways, well, what does that tell us? That they haven’t really changed, that only the threat of shutdown made them change things. If they were serious about change, they would have stopped doing unethical things long before the raid.
    And as far as evaluating the coursework, well, that’s what accreditation is all about. Who would pay for evaluating the coursework? The tax payer? UNVA would have to have that kind of evaluation. If you look at why SACS asked them to withdraw their application, it has to do with the lack of having such course evaluation:
    “The most difficult to correct was the lack of an acceptable Institutional Effectiveness Plan. This is a process where we show that we collect data about the effectiveness of our university (graduation rates, learning outcomes, whether students get jobs after graduation, etc.). We also have to have ways to identify problems and to correct them and to show an ongoing history (with proper documentation) of following the plan.”
    SACS has done good work. They have identified that UNVA doesn’t have a means to evaluate the coursework. In other words, to put it more bluntly, UNVA can not dispute that some teachers may give people As just for showing up.
    And btw, what’s in the catalog regarding the courses and teachers doesn’t mean much, as, once more, the TVU example shows. Some of the people listed in the TVU catalog as teachers claimed to know nothing about TVU, claimed to have never taught there (if that’s true or if they just tried to protect their career in their main job, I don’t know, of course.)
    ICE, btw, doesn’t care about the coursework. They can’t evaluate coursework. That, again, is an issue for an accreditation agency. Please don’t mix these two things. For ICE, what matters is that students take classes in person, that things like CPT are done correctly, and that, in the case of non-accredited institutions, the institution can identify at least 3 accredited institutions that accept credit transfers from the non-accredited institution.
    The quality of the coursework, evaluation, etc. is what accreditation ensures. No accreditation, no quality control, unless the institution has implemented their own voluntary quality control, e.g., as part of an application for accreditation. As the SACS stuff shows, UNVA hasn’t even done that. Their operations apparently don’t seem any better than the likes of TVU. There are classes, but there is no control about how grades are assigned, there is no review of the coursework. Is it graduate level, undergrad level? That’s a dead sentence for any attempt at accreditation. That’s diploma mill style. You pay money, you get an A… And they can’t even dispute that, because they have no data! They are flying blind! The more information I get about UNVA, the more I am convinced that they are doomed. They lack everything that makes a university a university.
    So, again, the only option I see for UNVA students is to get out of there ASAP, before it is too late.

  30. I know for the fact that students do attend classes and there are teacher present who have PhD degrees with them. I have not seen so far any professor coming out and saying UNVA claims association with me when I am not involved with it. TVU Profs came out and said out loud. I won’t believe this unless there is an evidence of such fraud.

    Yeah this is true that the UNVA has a business driven model based on Students. If UNVA continues then they would have to revisit their business model. I have seen that other profit and accredited University base their model on research and funding apart from student intake. If UNVA students are attending classes there may be students who have caliber to do good researches and help the university. Funding will definitely flow through if UNVA supports research development activities. I want UNVA to start thinking on these lines which would immensely benefit the students. Students will not only get research jobs on campus but also this whole issue of CPT will come to a halt. Not only Students will get good jobs and will make a useful career but also do justice to the definition of accreditation. I know there is a capital involved, but as Mr. Ho said that it is a very lucrative business it’s the right time to invest a part of his profit for all these activities which would complete the definition of a university. He needs to invest on infrastructure and research development initiatives which would help in getting the university a proper accreditation. (AGAIN ALL, this is just my thought)

    UNVA’s main problem is accreditation. I think there might be many universities who have shady standards but are accredited. UNVA should maintain proper paperwork and statistics that will be useful towards this process. Let’s wait and Watch what they come up with. The Judgment day is not that far.

  31. Teachers having PhDs doesn’t mean all that much.
    Normally, people with PhDs who don’t want to go on the research treadmill, with competing for grants, and writing a lot (publish or perish), go to accredited teaching universities. For example, in California, CalState. Or they go to community colleges, which are also accredited. Several of my friends with PhDs have gone that career route.
    The people who can’t get a job there may end up at accredited for-profit universities, like University of Phoenix. UoP has a pretty bad reputation, even though they are accredited. The bad reputation is to a large extent based on the rather poor quality of their teaching staff.
    And the people who are so bad that they can’t even get a job there, may go to unaccredited diploma mills like UNVA…

    Further, doing research requires a lot of investment up front. I doubt that Mr. Ho can provide the amount of money needed for research. It would start with hiring competent research faculty, and such people simply won’t go to some non-accredited institution. And lab costs are of course also very high. Just take a look at the operating budgets of some public research universities (e.g, University of California.)
    In particular, since as soon as UNVA loses SEVP approval, the flow of easy money stops. UNVA is pretty much completely unknown among Americans. Without SEVP, they can’t get foreign students, and probably would end up having something on the order of 10 American students. Pretty much no more money coming in…
    And getting accreditation is a multi-year thing. I would expect that to take at least 5 years.

    What I expect is going to happen is that ICE will be revoking UNVA’s SEVP approval. They may not shut down UNVA outright. But without SEVP approval, UNVA won’t last long, since there wouldn’t be enough money coming in from foreign students. They’ll likely go bankrupt some time after the SEVP revocation.

  32. I was thinking on the direction that PDH Profs might have research potential (As they were a part of one earlier in their lives). I have seen many universities research in public health which is a combination of mathematics, Probability, Methodical induction and statistics. These things really don’t need a big research lab. It really needs initiative and direction. I was not a researcher my self but I was nurtured. Students can be nurtured properly. Apart from that all students don’t get admission in Caltech and Stanford. Students can try but I think it will be in vain for most even if they want to start from scratch. It is tough to find a spot for even good candidates. Apart from that Mr. Ho has to find a method to get the funding he wants. If he is a successful business man he will find out some way I think. We don’t know how much money UNVA has earned over the years. It is possible they might invest in some or the other way. My whole post was for the students to keep calm and hope for the positive outcome. If ICE is going to shutdown they will give more time. ICE never said you have to, they said you can transfer to other SEVP approved college. They also said that students can attend the classes and maintain their status. This would be misleading if they don’t give time after they revoke SEVP approval. I might be wrong but still there are many grey areas which I don’t know. I will wait for the complete verdict before making a decision. (It might be late but I think it might be worth waiting). I can understand the state of mind of a student who has invested money and time. Education never goes waste. Yes accreditation is a year long thing but some one has to start at some point and it’s never too late for that. I am just keeping an optimistic approch

  33. Hmm, do I really want public health research from a non-accredited institution???
    This stuff in particular requires a lot of things. Data collection that has to do with human subjects (or with animal research) is subject to ethics laws, to a lot of bureaucracy. Real universities have ethics boards set up just for that.
    You significantly underestimate the amount of time and money for doing research. Graduate students are usually shielded from that by their advisers.
    And anyway, all these things you mention are things that may have been good for Mr. Ho to think about and initiate 3 years ago. He has a couple of days now…
    I am keeping a realistic approach. Sugarcoating things, saying “everything will be ok” doesn’t help anybody.
    A realistic assessment of the situation is what helps. And the situation is very dire for UNVA, and the students still there.

    BTW, as for the amount of money UNVA made, the TVU case is once again a data point. Ms. Su of TVU was able to buy a $1.8M mansion and a new high-end Mercedes, just two years into TVU’s operation…

    I actually can see these cases (TVU, UNVA, ITU, Herguan) as the basis for a dissertation in public policy regarding to students. It would require a lot of interviews with all the stakeholders, and distilling the data wouldn’t be easy, but for example, the authors of the March “Chronicle” article already have some of these interviews. Now, I won’t be doing that. My specialty is computer science, not political science… But somebody may write a diss. on this, or a book.

  34. We are deviating from the topic here. I was just suggesting a way to get things on track for UNVA. It might take them significant time (no doubt about it) but this is the right way to get a good name for the university after such allegations made on them. Sugar coating things is not helping any one I know .But keeping and optimistic approach is not a bad idea. Many students are playing the wait and watch game hoping for some thing good to happen. No one knows what ICE is going to do. No one knows what UNVA is doing and no one knows any thing. University also gives you education and money is what you can make out of it. Think about those people who are doing legitimate CPT’s. They are getting not only educated but also applying their knowledge. They already found a Job which might become their career tomorrow. I support those students. No one is married to UNVA. If proper choices are given, the students will happily take it. You cannot give a choice of leaving the university or following the university at the same time. Tell me why this choice is given?

    BTW research is a research and can become a documented thesis when accepted by a proper committee. No one cares where you did it from. It’s not a choice, it’s the will that is needed for a research. It is sometimes the choice of the student where he wants to do it from. You can guide him or her but finally it is their choice. We are not talking about students doing research we are talking about creating an environment for proper education channel. UNVA and TVU are cases on the same lines but not the same cases hence I don’t have any evidence to believe that the outcomes are going to be the same.

    I am not writing this post to make a point (Because I cannot prove one or even make one). I wrote this post to share my thoughts on this subject. (I even don’t know if any one else is reading this. But I think I have shared enough).

  35. Well, it is very obvious that Mr. Ho doesn’t want UNVA to be known. That means no research…
    From the March “Chronicle” article: “We don’t want people to know us”

    The bottom line is that UNVA in it’s current form is doomed, and no amount of suggestions, no amount of praying, no amount of “wait and see”, no amount of hope, no amount of attacking the messenger (not from you, but others here) changes that.
    And with the MSM (mainstream media) now being aware of UNVA, even if ICE would backtrack (which is very unlikely), they will be under scrutiny.
    I just got another Google Alert this morning:
    That has another nail in the coffin:
    “Its ample website states on every page that UNVA is “certified to operate as a University by the State Council of Higher Education in Virginia.” That is true, but that only means that it meets minimum financial and operational standards, council spokeswoman Kirsten Nelson said”
    So, this line on the UNVA website is nothing more than another misleading line, falsely suggesting that UNVA is somehow legitimate, when it only means that they have enough money to operate…
    Again, your suggestions may all be fine, but they are an exercise in futility. UNVA would have to completely change it’s business model, and that is just not going to happen in any timeframe that would help the current students.
    They may relaunch 5 years from now as a more legitimate entity with a different business model more along your lines, but the current entity is coming to an end. And the people signed up with the current entity can not wait 5 years, they have to get out of there now.

    It may be that it is just us two left discussing this here, with others having tuned out 😉
    Anyway, this page is indexed by Google (that’s how I came to know it to begin with, in a Google Alert that I have set up for UNVA topics…), so the discussion will be available to people interested in it in the future.

  36. Hahaha.. I knew this thing so long ago, that Google index this page. I’ve setup alert as well for the same thing.. Interesting to know that everyone will see the whole conversation.

  37. “And CPT is very rare at legitimate universities.”

    JoeF is usually a good source, but I know this is not true at least for the engineering fields. I was able to legitimately get CPT through my university’s cooperative education program at an ACC (Atlantic Coast Conference) school. I also was not the only international student to be able to get CPT either, and we were able to earn credit hours from the co-op experience. That said any university that advertises CPT as one of its primary recruiting pitches seems shady.

  38. I said it is rare, not impossible. There are of course legitimate uses of CPT.
    The target audience of this discussion isn’t applying at such universities, though. The target audience of this discussion applies at frauds like UNVA, Herguan, etc.. And that was what I was addressing.
    People who go to real universities wouldn’t even get this kind of CPT advertisement that UNVA as similar frauds do. For real universities, CPT is incidental to the program, it would be just a part of the curriculum, and not something the university uses in recruitment of students. It is part of the curriculum just as writing a thesis is part of the curriculum, just as having midterms and finals is part of the curriculum. A university doesn’t use the fact that there are midterms and finals in the recruitment of students.
    Any institution that uses CPT as recruitment tool is pretty much by definition shady. I think we agree on that…

  39. Doesn’t surprise me.
    These guys have been mentioned before in connection with UNVA.
    They make money by referring people to UNVA.
    Of course, their website shows nicely that UNVA is breaking the laws. CPT from day one, etc… And the “students” who use this to work in some job are also guilty.
    Shows perfectly that the astro-turfing UNVA “students” are completely wrong when they claim that all UNVA students are “innocent.” They will end up getting deported. And they deserve it. I hope they are banned for life from coming to the US ever again.

  40. What Joef says correct guys

    Don’t believe in Ren VCC. He recruited all most like more than 70% of students to UNVA. He keep on saying that he with the students not against University. Then why his employees working as proctors in new york for UNVA.

    They don’t have any official emails with UNVA but working for university then why Ren is paying them money for working for UNVA

    Save yourself guys don’t believe in Ren(vcceducations)

    1. Unfortunately, these guys won’t listen. They are in denial, and I don’t think they will get out of it until it is too late.
      When UNVA loses its SEVP approval, these guys will complain loudly. I expect another round of these “we didn’t know” quotes in Indian newspapers, and attempts at political intervention, just like what we had when TVU got shut down.
      And it will be as futile as in the TVU case.
      Reality has a habit of not caring about the hurt feelings of these guys. Nor does reality care about their loss of money. It all was their own making, their own blindness, their own switching off the brain when seeing the magic letters U, S, and A.

  41. “Wake up guys”

    Don’t wait till the peek time, Nothing will be in your hands.

    look our comments as helping hands and get out of dirt before you completely submerge.

  42. @JoeF – Kudos. That’s all.

    There are quite a few people out there either trying to justify that nothing was wrong in TVU & UNVA or claiming that they had no idea if anything shady was going on at either place. It’s also obvious that both of these claims are false but luckily for these people, they can get away by pretending to be idiots. More obvious questions are – Why doesn’t MIT or Berkeley offer CPT from day 1? Did these ‘students’ EVER wonder why their institutes were oh-so-special? Why doesn’t a board member of ANY of the well known (in entire world and not just a corner of India!) come out and say that their university is “very profitable”?

    Every year, more than 1,00,000 students come to US and there couple of thousand bad apples who want to cut corners are causing entire Indian student community A LOT of shame. I am one of such students who worked hard in school, wrote GRE and came to a well known school for studying. We have talked about this in our circles and the consensus is that EVERY single student at TVU, UNVA, Herguan, ITU etc knows that they are trying to cheat the system. All these arguments of ‘How were we supposed to know that USCIS approved is not enough?’ are broken records TVU students were using.

    Everyone involved needs to wake up from their day dream and realise that ignorance is not an excuse. It’s NEVER an excuse. Take responsibility for the shit you are trying to pull. ALL this is going to stick to your name for rest of your life. Grow up.

  43. The full cable from the US Consulate in Mumbai:
    “A further trend, discovered when derivative F2s appeared for visa interviews to join their claimed full-time student spouses, was that certain F1 students were reportedly studying at the University of Northern Virginia in Manassas, but residing in Edison, New Jersey, a center of migration for Gujarati speakers from the Mumbai consular district. For example, SEVIS ID N0004854481 has an “ACTIVE” SEVIS record at the University of Northern Virginia, which includes a comment stating the applicant is authorized to take a one year vacation, and concurrent “INITIAL” records at Essex Community College, NJ, and Our Planet Management, NY, which suggest he has submitted applications elsewhere. However, there are no indications that he is maintaining active status as a full time student.
    Similarly, SEVIS ID N0004297232 shows “ACTIVE” status at the University of Northern Virginia, with no mention of CPT
    authorization in New Jersey, but does show a “DEACTIVATED” record at New York’s Bluedata International Institute without explanation in the previous month. At the master’s level, students are expected to maintain a course load of nine credit hours per term to maintain active status. It is unclear how without performing off-site CPT work, this applicant managed to commute five and a half hours to attend classes.”

    That all confirms what I have been saying throughout the comments on this blog entry. I came to my conclusions by just reading lots of posts about UNVA and similar frauds on the Internet. The consulates can back it up with data…
    I am sure ICE has all this information.
    The conclusion remains: UNVA is doomed, and people need to get out of there ASAP.

    1. UNVA doesn’t want this stuff known.
      That’s why they sent out astro-turfers (see a bunch of these people trying to attack me in the comments here, which didn’t quite work…)
      I’ve also been told that they have threatened to sue people who inform the public about them.
      Information about them being a diploma mill threatens the incoming flow of money, and that’s all they care about.
      But from what I have read, about half of the UNVA students are in the process of transferring. That’s good, but of course still keeps them about TVU size.

  44. An old discussion, but my prediction that UNVA will go under now has come true:
    “The University of Northern Virginia should soon receive a cease and desist letter forcing the campus to close immediately, leaving students unsure if their credits are transferable.

    The State Council for Higher Education in Virginia revoked the university’s license to operate Tuesday based on the school’s inability to regain accreditation.”

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